El Scorchio
4:07 Fri Apr 28
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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VirginiaHam 12:42
Agree wholeheartedly about diving. I've been banging that drum for ages that VAR could easily punish and basically eradicate diving from the game if it were allowed to be used for it.
In terms of too tight... I was kind of referring to specifically things like 'is it a complete catch?' or 'is it incomplete?' where it's not obvious at first glance.
But I believe VAR in football actually isn't there to overturn those- I thought it was for 'clear and obvious errors'. However even that seems subjective game to game really. But I agree it should be used for those close things as well. The rules as they are still allow handballs, penaltites etc to be incorrect just as long as they weren't 'really' incorrect and get looked at again. It's fucking ridiculous how some things are picked up to review and others are not. System is just bent. At least in other sports you feel it's being used fairly toward both teams or players. Not in football, as usual.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:48 Fri Apr 28
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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VAR now has an inbuilt bias towards 'no penalty'.
The inept referee on the pitch gives nothing, knowing that VAR will review it for him. VAR only overturns 'clear and obvious' errors. So, given that the ref has already indicated no penalty, close calls will never get given.
Except if Liverpool or Man United are involved, of course.
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VirginiaHam
12:42 Fri Apr 28
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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El Scorchio 10:36 Thu Apr 27
Re: diving and yellow cards, let the game continue (unless penalty) and just hand out cards for diving upon review.
As for the 'too tight to overturn', isn't that the point of VAR? to overturn those. Fuck the feelings of the ref. Just put things right and carry on.
This romantic notion of onfield decsion exists but the reality is (per Kavanaugh last night) that you can have the perfect view and still do nothing. After that, VAR is compromised.
Let's remember; VAR was invented to correct howlers.
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El Scorchio
10:36 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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kylay 9:25
Yup, agree about it adding delays and length onto games, but objectively, it has led to more correct decisions standing, or errors being corrected, barring the odd calamity or 'not sure but too tight to overturn'. It feels more frustrating when an error in officiating happens with somethign that can't be reviewed.
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kylay
10:14 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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One of the real tragedies of VAR is that they do not review for simulation and award yellow cards accordingly. Not doing that has only exacerbated that problem to the point now everyone goes down in hopes of a bad angle for a penalty or red card.
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nychammer
9:26 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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Hand ball rule is too vague and it is open to willful interpretation.
Liverpool player hand ball at OS: “he was falling and put an arm out to control himself - no pen”
West Ham player at Anfield: “he lost control in the area, lunged at the ball and his arm was away from his body when the ball struck it. - penalty!”
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kylay
9:25 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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El Scorchio 7:34 Thu Apr 27
completely disagree about NFL and college level . VAR has just about ruined those games with the constant reviews which is a bit ironic considering there are 7 officials on the field at a given time.
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claypole
8:09 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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I havent a clue about technology but VAR should see the action as AI with a non descriptive kit so they dont know who the players are they just judge the action and then make a decision.
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Lee Trundle
7:42 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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Cony Tottee 7:26 Thu Apr 27
I can't see the point in sending the ref over to the monitor 99% of the time, as normally it's clear to everyone that they've made a cock up.
Does VAR have to send the ref over to the monitor? Is it a case of they have to give the ref ultimate power, and they're unable to tell him he messed up and he has to see for himself?
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,
7:39 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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As per usual it’s the inconsistency that rankles. Last night’s handball was more a penalty than Antonio’s against Arsenal imho.
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El Scorchio
7:34 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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Love how it works in rugby. 'Is there any reason i can't award this try? Here's what I saw' followed by an audible conversation and 'I'm just checking a possible offside/forward pass in the build up as well as the grounding.' Teamwork and clearly explained.
It also works pretty well in the NFL.
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Cony Tottee
7:26 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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Lee Trundle 6:42 Thu Apr 27
Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. The video ref sends the ref to the monitor if he thinks he's made an obvious error. The ref then normally changes his decision. In other sports the ref, video ref and assistants work together to make a decision between them.
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chim chim cha boo
6:54 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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Far Cough 5:31 Thu Apr 27
I think there's a very easy answer to your question. We're in the richest league in the whole world, most clubs are sponsored by betting companies and places like China are obsessed with football and betting.
Most (if not all) of the players are paid much, much more than the ref yet the refs think that they are stars in their own right, fuck knows why? Yet they do. Are we really going to believe that it's just incompetence to blame for these outrageous decisions?
These cunts are totally at it.
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Lee Trundle
6:42 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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"In football the video ref is being asked to overule the on-field ref off their own back."
Has that ever happened? I can't recall a time where VAR told the ref they fucked up and to change his decision. They just tell them to go to the monitor and waste even more time.
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Far Cough
6:30 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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TC, yeah I pretty much agree with that
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Russ of the BML
6:17 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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The penalty was a joke and the ref should have at least been advised to go and view the monitor. We was robbed of a point.
BUT
The penalty does give Moyes an out on what was a shocking set up and display of rope-a-dope football against a team that are not even that good when in possession. Once again, Moyes bending over to the big sides and taking a large fucking hard cylinder straight his ginger rectum.
If you set up to play so deep and play a containment and break system then you always leave yourself open to conceding as the other team create enough chances to improve their odds of scoring.
Our defence, bar a couple of errors, played really well. But they fucking had to when we had 26% possession at home. They had 20 attempts at goal to our 7. It's fucking simple law of averages. Increase your own chances and reduce the opponents. Then you increase your odds of winning.
And, yes, it was a pen, but fuck me, Soucek virtually held the ball against Chelsea but it wasn't given as it was deemed to be a hand to break his fall. This will almost certainly be the same. Yes, its bollocks, but some you get and some you don't.
Moyes can bleat all he likes. Set the team up to go and win and create more scoring opportunities.
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Cony Tottee
6:04 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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FC
I think the difference is that in other sports the on-field ref will ask the video ref to help in the decision making process so you get them working together to get the right decision.
In football the video ref is being asked to overule the on-field ref off their own back. Add to this the fact that football refs do not explain their decisions in the same way they do in sports like rugby and this allows them to hide from taking any real responsibility for their mistakes as they don't have to justify anything. imo
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David L
5:58 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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Bloody hell - ALEX V! Blast from the past. Nice to see he hasn't mellowed one bit.
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Far Cough
5:31 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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I've never known the amount of outright controversies in football, compared with other sports that have some kind of video technology
How comes football is so fucked up?
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El Scorchio
5:00 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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It's never acceptable to lose to those cunts. Trouble is it happens so often and it's usually by some sort of misfortune or contrivance.
I recall keeper howlers, loads of deflected or lucky goals, umpteen dodgy decisions. Regular thing against that lot, for some reason.
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Lee Trundle
4:50 Thu Apr 27
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread
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Alex V on TWITTER
"I feel like last night was a game that supporters will interpret as an acceptable loss. Myself included."
CLASSIC V
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